Standing on the Oche (I vs V)

Discussion in 'Practice, Strategy & Technique' started by Boddington_Paul, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. Boddington_Paul

    Boddington_Paul New Member

    I try to teach people to shoot the standard way ( I ) or the two feet in the oche ( V ) position. There are advantages to both I think. So however I see a newbie player stand on the line that is how I teach them

    What is your opinion? I like to know
  2. digger331

    digger331 New Member

    I think it depends on foot placement, then stance. I've seen people toe the line, and others place their foot parallel to the line - both ways work, but I'm not sure which one's best.
  3. q_daman

    q_daman New Member

    I think the 1 foot to the line has more advantages, and the 2 feet to the line more drawbacks. Cause the way I see it, with one foot to the line, your arm is naturally in front of you. With 2 feet to the line, you have to bring your arm in front of you. I have personally only seen a few people with 2 feet on the oche, they do have some reasonable success, but were never that consistant.
  4. 5uperman

    5uperman New Member

    I think a great point to this arguement would be to ask tis question...

    How many of the top pros stand 2 footed on the oche?

    That being said... Is there really that much advantage opposed to disadvantage the way you stand on the line?

    Stance comfort has to come into play here. How do you feel when standing on the line? You are going to have to stand there alot. I know after a weekend of serious play when I go deep into all events(top 4) the back of my right knee is stiff come Monday morning! I have been thinking about changing my stance because of this... but changing someting that works is hard to do!

    I believe the foot position of the stance is secondary... it has more to do with "repeatability" If you can stand the same way and release the dart the same way time after time after time (you get the point!) the stance doesnt really matter!
  5. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    I think q_daman is dead on. While I have seen decent shooters put both toes on the oche, you do have to turn the body a bit anyway to get the shoulder out and towards the board or you must learn to throw with your forearm at an aggle over your upper arm. (It can be done; however, my thinking is that it is a lot more to control.) Having one foot on the oche and the other behind just seems more natural. I personally use a modified archer's stance. The outside of my foot on the oche and the heels in line.

    5uperman also makes a great point for comfort. Of the three people I know who throw with their toes on the line, two of they report doing it because of back pain. One told me that he had to relearn his stroke because he loved darts so much. Consistancy is definatley a factor; however, you can teach your body to do all sorts of strange things and become consistant with it; even feel comfortable with it.

    Watching the pros, in my opinion, is watching people who have dicovered the easiest and most efficient way to do things. With that said, unlearning is more difficult than learning. So changing a stance may create some problems. I agree that one foot should be forward.

    Now, what do you do with the back foot? Up on the toes or flat on the ground. At an angle or directly behind the front foot? What are the advantages and disadvantages.

    My back leg is directly behind my front and this creates an unstable stance. When I am tired I can feel myself rocking to the left, towards my toes. Sometimes my foot will come out from behind to stop the rocking. It seems I should be throwing with the foot out there anyway but I feel better when I am shooting well with my heels in a straight line. Perhaps I will change some day. Who knows?
  6. Boddington_Paul

    Boddington_Paul New Member

    That is the point I was trying to make because if you have both feet on the oche then you are more stable where as the one toe thing is a balance act, but we all do it.

    It is true that on the V stand you have to put your shooting arm infront of you to play the advangage to that is you can pivot your body whereas the one foot you have to shift left or right
  7. OnAndGone

    OnAndGone New Member Staff Member

    One foot shouldn't cause a balance problem as long as you set your weight correctly on the front foot.

    Two feet on the line causes too much tension in the chest area. I could never get comfortable standing like that. I know someone who does use both feet on the line and he aleways looks like he is forcing the dart to the board.
  8. davsun

    davsun New Member

    I'm sorry, but I'm just going to say it: I can't believe that we're actually discussing the pros/cons of the "I - V" stances. NEVER encourage a shooter to shoot in the "V" stance. NEVER EVER NEVER. There, I got it out of my system. There are just WAY too many problems with the "V" stance - balance issues during the throw/follow-through, lining up the body/arm issues, etc. Every time I see a "newbie" lining up in the "V" format, my mind begins to overload and I offer my assistance if wanted. If they don't want any suggestions, then I let them continue on their chosen path of ensuing mediocrity. No "V" stances!
  9. PMA

    PMA New Member

    I was thinking it, other said it, so I will join in.... just say "NO" to V. No pros to the V.
  10. bobDslob

    bobDslob New Member

    I have never seen the V stance in my life. I'm picturing the feet actually touching at the heel, and making a V shape. Is this right?
  11. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    I think they are just talking about the toes of both feet touching the oche. The advantage seems to be that it is easier on the back and bad knees. As I said before, the players I know that choose to shoot this way, do so because it is too painful for them to shoot any other way. While I am thinking about it, I know another guy who has been throwing facing more front, though I do not remember where he is putting his feet. I suspect he is using a V stance and both toes are on the oche. He recently had back surgery and had three of his lumbar discs fused. He has been wearing a brace and can not stand sideways and shoot.

    I agree, there are no significant advantages to shooting from the V. It may in fact hinder good darts; however, for some who can not seem to throw from the 'I' position, it may be an option.
  12. budward

    budward New Member

    I agree with the both feet on the line stance as being less painful. With ongoing back problems and 5 knee scopes under my belt, I had to relearn to throw with that stance.
  13. BigHonu

    BigHonu New Member

    Sorry to hear of the back and knee problems. How are your darts now that you have changed over?
  14. Stefen

    Stefen Member

    I've also tried a 45 degree stance as I did in archery,
    It didn't work for me. I use an inline stance, with the centre line passing through the heels, a little bend forward at the waist. Took my lead from the pros.
  15. bobDslob

    bobDslob New Member

    Thanks Tae, that makes more sense. An older fella at the LOD last night shot like this. Can't say he was too consistent, but he and his partner won the whole damn thing, and beat one of the top arms in the state along the way. (who's game was a bit off from the little I saw)
  16. budward

    budward New Member

    Big Honu; After changing stances my level of play went way down.Just this past week I went back to the old I stance. It is worth the pain to be able to throw competitively again. Besides that, who feels pain in the middle of a tight game. :D
  17. Boddington_Paul

    Boddington_Paul New Member

    I am glad I made this post because I did not know how many players actually shot that way. I am very surprised

    The V Stance works for me when shooting LEFTY
  18. Kingpin

    Kingpin New Member

    I've always used the I stance, since I was a kid I guess. Never really thought about why or the advantages or disadvantages. The guys on the TV and my dad and his mates down the pub all threw like that and it was just the way it was done. I've seen some throw from the V stance, but the people I've seen tend not to be regular dart players, at least not to any sort of competition standard

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