Custom Darts (by a new member)

Discussion in 'General Dart Talk' started by kennyg, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Hi all new member here, located in NW Montana. I was involved in darts back in the 90's but life got in the way. I am now 72 yrs old and although I can still throw back problems and age are problematic. I am a hobby machinist and have recently tried my hand at making darts results have been pretty good so far but a long way to go. Lots of question regarding dart spec etc.
     
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  2. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    Welcome to the site! Erik our site owner has designed his own darts and had them manufactured by red dragon and there are lots of guys with a wealth of information to share!
     
  3. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    Welcome to the site.

    Jeff Pickup was a master at crafting darts and made my originals however, sadly, he is no longer with us. There are others though and I've met and spoken to a number of them. There have been a lot of folks on the site here, too, who have had darts made and some many sets. However, sadly, FaceCrap has taken it's toll on forums like this one and many of those folks rarely visit anymore :( But there are a few of us left! and some new folks too so feel free to ask away and we might be able to answer for you ;)

    Cheers
     
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  4. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Thanks for the acknowledgments, as many of you may be aware the advent of CNC has made it possible to manufacture very intricate and precisely made tools (darts being the tool of the players trade). I only have a manual lath and mill so accomplishing uniform weights and patterns is somewhat problematic and so far I need to stick to very basic designs. The use of tungsten is also a problem not in the sense that it is hard to turn but it's expensive. At this point I'm only working with mild steel but have made a couple sets one a more soft tip type at 14g X 6mm X 63.5mm a little long and not weight forward quit enough for me. The second one is 23g x 8mm x 50mm the barrel is straight and a heavy(coarse) knurl. I was actually amazed at how well the 23g threw. I'll try to post pic's if I can figure it out . My work isn't ready for prime time for sure but I would be interested in seeing or having a draft of a design anyone would like and see if it would be possible for me to make. PM's are welcome
     
    VanO likes this.
  5. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    Posting pics is as easy as cutting and pasting :D
     
  6. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Well then!!! Next on the list is to order some Brass and stainless steel, a little more dense than the mild steel so it should allow for more weight and some more design elements as these are pretty plain Jane. But my question does fancy mean better? It seems to me that weight, weight distribution(balance point), diameter , length, grip(knurls ring smooth barrels) are the important features. Shafts, flights and tips are also important but out of the scope of machining.

    upload_2019-2-16_14-23-30.png
    14g x 6mm x 63.5mm with steel conversion tips finish is hot blue like a gun blueing would have done a taper but couldn't get a good weight using cold rolled mild steel

    upload_2019-2-16_13-58-54.png
    same as above with longer shaft and soft tips
     
  7. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    03954CD8-DD97-4741-8392-84C76F530287.jpeg Those are nice! I posted on another thread about total length and such being of great importance...at least to me. This is a drawing of a design I submitted for a signature dart contest. If you wanna try it please feel free! I think I planned for 80% tungsten but brass would work too!
     
  8. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    [​IMG]
    My darts are on the right (the one by itself) and it isn't fancy at all ;) Just some simple grooves for grip and a smooth barrel...however, I paid close attention to thickness (for grip), length (ditto) and most important was the taper to the tip (on my steels it's very obvious) and to the shaft for a smooth transition and less deflections.

    The darts on the left though, are Shot Rei's and they are an awesome dart so fancy isn't necessary but doesn't hurt and for sales helps.

    EriksBarrells.jpg
    The original

    What we did, that was very different, is that we hollowed out the back of the dart so nearly half of the back of the dart was actually hollow :) This is how I got the size I wanted, in the weight I wanted in a 90% tungsten dart...later with NODOR/Red Dragon we changed to 85% Tungsten and were able to reduce the hollow section. The added benefit of the hollow back half was front loading on the dart.

    Your dart VanO looks like some I've seen and would certainly give some grip feedback but keep the bumps down or you will deflect off of them a lot!
     
  9. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    Thanks. I loosely based the shape on a set of brass darts I used in the past with good success. The drawing is a bit deceptive in that the bumps are not so pronounced. The idea was a series of shallow scallops and the rounded “bumps” were more of a result of that. The shaded area I originally thought to knurl it but later thought micro grooves would be better. Funny that I too thought of hollowing to achieve the weight target in a stockier dart.
     
  10. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Gotta thank you guys you have confirmed much of what I have been thinking and given me a lot to think about. Thinking that maybe a new thread may be in order. Maybe one of you could move this to a more appropriate forum say something related to design and machining of darts since we have already started the discussion or I could just start another. @VanO I have downloaded your design and am and will definitely give it a try. @eric I totally agree with your deflection considerations, after watching tons(pun intended) of YOUTUBE videos I have noticed that the majority or at least a large number of the top PDC and BDO players use the Shot Rei's type of darts so that has to say something, with exceptions like Phil.
     
  11. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    How about I just change the title? LOL

    I could drop the 'new member' part too if you like. No reason to keep it.

    Deflections are what caused me to move away from Bottleson MegaThrusts and Vox Spirits (they were the worst) and to in essence redesign a few different styles into my own. I'll admit, I'd played with many sets before then, for literally decades, but the change is what saw me go to the next level. After all, your averages go UP when your darts hit what you intended them too ;) rather than deflecting away from it.
     
  12. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Yes I think that is a good it may get a little more attention. I'm sure the discussion is not new but maybe a different slant works for me go for it. I'm going to have to check out the Bottleson darts to see what you mean on my way now.
     
  13. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    Good for you and good thread. In golf when i did custom equipment i tried to keep it very utilitarian. If it worked or was proven to work we stuck to it. If not we moved on. A good friend of mine always quoted William Blake(I think) “Made are tools, born are hands.” Lately I have been faring well with longer parallel barrels but with my hand size I struggle with consistent release. Hence the idea for a stockier dart.
     
  14. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    I had to check out the Bottleson darts as there is one that I have used in the past i.e. the GT the tear drop shape. Mine are the smooth barrel as I thought that it was the most aerodynamic design I had seen at that time. They are of course tungsten so I adapted to what I had
     
  15. kennyg

    kennyg Member

  16. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    I would worry about that blunt end causing more deflections but no reason not to try it ;)
     
  17. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    I totally agree with you the taper allows the second dart to slide along the barrel of the first. The taper of the GT's is much more drastic than I have shown, obviously their attempt to front load the dart. This leads me to the question about your solution to bore out the shaft end of your design to create front loading (brilliant I may add). I assume that your shafts are a 2ba for which the tap drill is 4mm, so did you simply drill it out 4mm for Xmm of length, or did you have them bored out to a larger diameter past the threads. I think that is probably a silly question as a boring bar to do that would be have to be pretty tiny. Unless there is an optical illusion your darts look to be longer and bigger diameter than the rei's curious as to the weight and length of yours.
     
  18. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    I didn't do any of the work :D Just let the guys know what I wanted and thought and let them work out the mechanics of how to do it :D
     
  19. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    6B7CBA09-312E-48AC-AF8A-663E82649CAC.jpeg Kennyg this is the dart.
     
  20. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    So yesterday I had a break from plowing snow and the shop was a little cold so I took the opportunity to create a CAD drawing of @VanO 's dart design I did this to check out my interpretation and see if I have any gross dimension problems. I converted it to a Jpeg so everyone can view it. I will go over the machining process if it is reasonably close I must admit I did take some artistic license trying to make it symmetrical with all the curves. VanO Dart design.jpeg
     
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